Bassam Ayesh

[00:00:00] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay, this is an oral history interview for Mawtini, the Mawtini Oral History Project, Arab American Narratives of Home and Belonging. My name is Farah Al-Nakib, and I'm here interviewing, alongside my fellow interviewer... [00:00:15] Iyad Jamaly: Iyad Jamaly. [00:00:16] Farah Al-Nakib: And we're here interviewing Bassam Ayesh. It's July 24th, 2025, and we are in Atascadero. Can you just say and spell your name for us, please? [00:00:28] Bassam Ayesh: Sure. Bassam, B-A-S-S-A-M. Last name is A-Y-E-S-H, Bassam Ayesh. [00:00:36] Farah Al-Nakib: Perfect. So Bassam, where are you, what is your family origin? [00:00:41] Bassam Ayesh: My family's origin is from Yafa, Palestine. That's where my mom and dad were born. That's where they lived and their ancestors lived for thousands of years. Which is Tel Aviv, they call it Tel Aviv, I don't call it Tel Aviv, I call it Yafa. [00:01:03] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. And, how long were they there for? Like, when did they leave Yafa? [00:01:12] Bassam Ayesh: My mom left Yafa when she was ten years old. She, when I interviewed her, she had said, "I was maybe nine or ten years old." [00:01:25] Bassam Ayesh: She was born in a town called Soroka, which is predominantly Jewish, surprisingly, and I didn't even know. But that's where she was born, and then I asked her during her, when she was growing up, who was she playing with? Was it Arabs, Palestinians? She said, no, they were mainly, mainly Jews that she played with and she was out in the street with and mingled with. [00:02:05] Bassam Ayesh: And I was actually surprised. But that's, she was born in that town till she was nine or ten, like she said. And then, and when the 1936 revolution happened, Thawrat al-Buraq, she, they had moved to another town called Yazur, which is Qadha' Yafa, you know, vicinity of Yafa, and that's where she lived with her brothers and sister, so another town. [00:02:37] Bassam Ayesh: I'm not sure about proximity from where she was born but also Yafa. And then she had lived there from when she was ten till she's about, from [19]36, about from '36, '37, till about '47, '48, when the Nakba took place, and then she moved from there to Nablus. [00:03:05] Bassam Ayesh: So, and then the reason why she left, she sad, I asked her, I said, "Was there any direct threat to you that moved, that had you leave? Any direct bombing?" She said, "No, but they came, al-Jaysh al-Urduni, the Jordanian military, had told us that you're gonna be leaving and you're gonna be coming back soon." But they were evacuating everybody from that town. [00:03:37] Bassam Ayesh: And she said, "We even left our belongings. We didn't think it was gonna be what it turn, what it turned out to be." So, that's when she moved. She, you know, it wasn't direct bombing, but it was evacuation. [00:03:53] Farah Al-Nakib: And they never were able to go back? [00:03:54] Bassam Ayesh: And they were never able to go back. She was in Nablus till about she was 16. That's when she met my dad, because my dad had... Unfortunately, I never interviewed my dad, but he had left Yafa also, and then to Nablus. [00:04:14] Bassam Ayesh: My dad was captured in what's it called, al-Lydd, al-Lydd, which is another town. He was there for about a month, for no reason. He was just captured, and they were put in a camp for a month. [00:04:27] Farah Al-Nakib: How old was he when he was captured? [00:04:29] Bassam Ayesh: He was, well, he's ten years older than my mom, so I would say he's probably was 17, 18 at the time. And then, in '48 he also moved to Nablus. And that's where he met my mom. And they got, and he married her in Nablus. And then, and then from Nablus, they lived there for, I think, couple years. He had my oldest daughter, I mean sister. She was, she passed away now. Andd then they moved to Jordan for a year or two, and then from there they moved to Kuwait. [00:05:11] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. [00:05:12] Bassam Ayesh: In, like, maybe 1951, '52. [00:05:17] Farah Al-Nakib: I definitely wanna come back to that. [00:05:19] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. [00:05:19] Farah Al-Nakib: But before I do, did your parents tell you stories about growing up in Yafa, what that was like? Do you remember? [00:05:26] Bassam Ayesh: Unfortunately, my dad, not much, because I, when I left Kuwait, I was 18 years old. That's one of the things I regret. I did not spend a lot of time with him, asking him about his you know, growing up, the things he did. That's one of the things I really, really regret. [00:05:47] Bassam Ayesh: So from, what, 18 till about, he died in '98, I probably spent few days with him because I was, I lived here. And then from, I came here '84 or end of '84, '85, '86, '87, went to Kuwait for a month, in '88. Saw him for a, for a month, then I came back. And then '90 was the invasion. I graduated June of '90, and then I was planning to go back, and then I couldn't because of the war, so he had to go to Jordan. [00:06:24] Bassam Ayesh: And then I saw him in '91 for probably another month. And then I came back here. So I didn't spend a lot of time with him, and so I don't know about his, you know, his growing up, how, if he felt the, you know, the racism or anything like that. [00:06:50] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. But your mom, you said, had grown up in a very sort of mixed religious, I mean, you said a lot of her childhood friends were Jewish, and so. [00:06:59] Bassam Ayesh: Yes, and she had no, she never sensed any discrimination like that they were Jewish or you're an Arab, and she never sensed any of that, because that's all took place before '48. [00:07:12] Farah Al-Nakib: Right. Yeah. Yeah. And so you said your parents then went to Nablus, so they must have been in Nablus a short period. [00:07:19] Bassam Ayesh: Short period. [00:07:20] Farah Al-Nakib: And, because then they, and then Jordan as well was- [00:07:22] Bassam Ayesh: Right. [00:07:23] Farah Al-Nakib: And so why did they decide, do you know why they decided to go to Kuwait? [00:07:27] Bassam Ayesh: I think looking for a better living. [00:07:30] Farah Al-Nakib: And you said this was about 1950-ish. [00:07:33] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah, so that's all, you know, between Nablus and Jordan, I wanna say between '48 and '51. So about three years. [00:07:40] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. And so they went to Kuwait. What was, what were they doing when, in Kuwait when they moved there? [00:07:46] Bassam Ayesh: My dad had a supermarket- [00:07:47] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh. [00:07:48] Bassam Ayesh: In Kuwait. And, all along, just little supermarket. [00:07:55] Farah Al-Nakib: Do you remember where- [00:07:56] Bassam Ayesh: Dukkan. Yeah. [00:07:57] Farah Al-Nakib: Dukkan. Do you remember where it was? [00:07:58] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah, of course. [00:07:59] Farah Al-Nakib: Where was it? [00:08:00] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. It was bil Nugrah. [00:08:01] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. [00:08:01] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. You know, you're familiar? [00:08:03] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:08:03] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. You know Fatayer Al Jamil? [00:08:06] Farah Al-Nakib: Mm-hmm. [00:08:06] Bassam Ayesh: That was a popular one. [00:08:07] Farah Al-Nakib: Yes. [00:08:08] Bassam Ayesh: We were around that corner right there. [00:08:09] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh, okay. [00:08:10] Bassam Ayesh: At that turn, there's a turn, Thanawiyyat Hawalli [Hawalli High School]. [00:08:12] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:08:13] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah, we were right there. From my, from my apartment to Thanawiyyat Hawalli or Huda Sha'arawi [School], three-minute walk. [00:08:22] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:08:22] Bassam Ayesh: So we were really close, so I'd walk to the- [00:08:25] Farah Al-Nakib: To school. [00:08:25] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. [00:08:26] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. And, what was the name of it, you said? Of the store he had? [00:08:31] Bassam Ayesh: The store? It's called, well, I think he had two names. One was Yafa. [00:08:35] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. [00:08:36] Bassam Ayesh: At some point. He moved from Al-Nugrah when I was here. I heard he moved his supermarket to Ibn Khaldun. [00:08:43] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. [00:08:43] Bassam Ayesh: Sharie' Ibn Khaldun [Ibn Khaldun Street]. [00:08:44] Farah Al-Nakib: In Hawalli, yeah. [00:08:45] Bassam Ayesh: And then, but it was named, Yafa or Zahrat Yafa. [00:08:51] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. Yeah. And so he had that store. Was your mom working or was she with- [00:08:58] Bassam Ayesh: Oh, gosh, oh, yeah, she was his, she was constantly in it. She's in it. [00:09:02] Farah Al-Nakib: She was also working with him at the store. [00:09:02] Bassam Ayesh: With him. Oh, yeah, she, I mean, she did the cleaning. She's looking after him. You know, he'd go in the morning, 4:00 in the morning, go to the chabra you know, the suq al-khudhra [vegetable market], and then he would pick up the, I remember he had a Dodge Dart. He would fill it up with fruits and vegetables, and he would, in the trunk he would tie it. [00:09:27] Bassam Ayesh: It would be like all stacked, and he had, he had the shoo bisammooha hai [what do they call it], on top of the hood. Yeah. He would fill it up, and when he comes in and he would park like in front of the store, the car would scrape. [Laughs.] He was a hard-working man. So from 4:00, like he'd leave 4:00 o'clock. [00:09:48] Farah Al-Nakib: In the morning. [00:09:48] Bassam Ayesh: And he was a serious man. [00:09:49] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:09:50] Bassam Ayesh: Like, he was not a joker. He was not, you know, let's go play or, you know, he was just a serious man. [00:09:58] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:09:58] Bassam Ayesh: Hanoon [compassionate], but, you know, he was just a serious man. He's... And I think, now that I look back at why our parents were so serious or our mothers is, if I look at it, because he, you know, he migrated from Yafa to Nablus, Nablus, Jordan, Jordan, Kuwait, Kuwait, Jordan. [00:10:20] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:10:21] Bassam Ayesh: And to me, I look at, it's like, "Why, why?" It's like, because I talk to all my other friends and they say, "Yeah, my dad was like that. My dad's like that." And I told them, I tell them it's because they needed Prozac probably, you know? They, they, nobody would diagnosing these guys. Because, I mean, if you go from one place to another with a family, it's very, very hard. [00:10:44] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:10:45] Bassam Ayesh: So I think that's why they were so serious. They were just har- you know, life was hard on them. [00:10:51] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:10:52] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. [00:10:52] Farah Al-Nakib: You said your sister had been born in Nablus? [00:10:57] Bassam Ayesh: My sister, my older sister was born, yeah, she's the only one that was born in Nablus. [00:11:02] Farah Al-Nakib: And then- [00:11:02] Bassam Ayesh: And I think at some point, my dad left her in Nablus, went look for, went to Jordan or Kuwait. I don't, I would have to go back and listen to my mom's testimony, but, and then he, he left her. I know he left her for a year to go make a living. [00:11:20] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah, and then bring- [00:11:22] Bassam Ayesh: And then, and then take, yeah, bring the family back. [00:11:25] Farah Al-Nakib: And how many other siblings do you have? So you have your sister. [00:11:28] Bassam Ayesh: I have, two, two other brothers are older than me. [00:11:31] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. [00:11:31] Bassam Ayesh: And I have a sister, that first one, she passed away, and then I have two other sisters. One live in Dubai, and one live in Jordan. [00:11:39] Farah Al-Nakib: So were you all born in Kuwait? [00:11:41] Bassam Ayesh: Yes. [00:11:42] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. And you're, so you said you're the- [00:11:44] Bassam Ayesh: I'm the youngest of the- [00:11:45] Farah Al-Nakib: You're the, of the brothers ... [00:11:47] Bassam Ayesh: Of the boys. Yes, and then there's a sister that's younger than me. [00:11:50] Farah Al-Nakib: So what year were you born? ' [00:11:52] Bassam Ayesh: '66. [00:11:53] Farah Al-Nakib: '66. What was Kuwait like then? Do you remember your childhood? [00:11:58] Bassam Ayesh: Oh, yeah. I mean, Kuwait is... It's my home. It was my home. I felt like I belong. I've... It was easy. Just life is, was easy. School was good. The standards at school were good. I remember the free food we used to get at school. [00:12:21] Bassam Ayesh: We'd get, like, a, I don't know, you, you grew up in Kuwait too. Remember, the lentil soup? [00:12:28] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. [00:12:28] Bassam Ayesh: We used to get the lentil soup, and, like, one day we'll get a, like a la vache qui rit cheese and a toast. And then one day we'd get, like, a Kit Kat. [Laughs.] But I think lentil soup was daily. And then they would spice it up with something else, like a Kit Kat bar or a cheese. Do you remember that? [00:12:53] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. And so you went to- [00:12:54] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah, it was quite a meal, some reason. The cheese, al la vache qui rit with the soup. [00:12:59] Farah Al-Nakib: Mm-hmm. [00:13:00] Bassam Ayesh: That was quite the meal. [00:13:01] Farah Al-Nakib: So which school did you go to for elementary school? [00:13:03] Bassam Ayesh: For elementary, I went to Al-Farabi. [00:13:05] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. [00:13:06] Bassam Ayesh: Which is, do you know where that is? [00:13:07] Farah Al-Nakib: Mm-mm. [00:13:08] Bassam Ayesh: Okay. So from Hawalli, it's like, I wanna say maybe, two miles up that way, not toward al-Jabriya. [00:13:18] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:13:19] Bassam Ayesh: The other way. [00:13:20] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. [00:13:20] Bassam Ayesh: And then, four years of that, and then I went to Al-Hariri, which bil Jabriya, for middle school. [00:13:28] Farah Al-Nakib: Mutawasset [middle school], okay. [00:13:30] Bassam Ayesh: And Hawalli for the- [00:13:30] Farah Al-Nakib: For high school. [00:13:31] Bassam Ayesh: High school. [00:13:31] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:13:32] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. [00:13:32] Farah Al-Nakib: And you said you lived in Nugrah? [00:13:35] Bassam Ayesh: I lived in Nugrah for all my life, yes. [00:13:38] Farah Al-Nakib: Can you describe the neighborhood at that time? [00:13:40] Bassam Ayesh: The neighborhood was multiethnic, big time. So just to give you an example, across the street from us were, I remember it was two or three families who were Christians, like George Shammas, Joseph, some, you know, Lebanese. [00:13:58] Bassam Ayesh: One of them was working, one was a doctor, one was a, شو بسمو اللي بجيب الماي للعمارات [what do you call him, the guy who brings water to the buildings] you know he had a ta- one of those- [00:14:09] Farah Al-Nakib: The tanks- [00:14:10] Bassam Ayesh: The tanks, the tanks that- [00:14:12] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. To fill water. [00:14:13] Bassam Ayesh: Right. And one of them, next to them were Lebanese Shi'a. From, al-Dhahiya, south Lebanon. From Bara'achit, Bourj el-Barajneh. Those were really, really close. Dar Farhat. The people that owned the Al-Jamil [School], they're actually Shi'a. They're from the south, Dar Farhat. They're the one that own it. They were in that same neighborhood. Persians, Iranians, Pakistanis, Indians, on all that one street. [00:14:48] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:14:51] Bassam Ayesh: So, I just grew up, I even knew a little bit of Urdu, a little bit of Persian because I mingled with all these people. [00:14:59] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:14:59] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah, and it was, I would never, never... I don't ever remember anything about, "Hey, I'm a Shi'a or I'm a Christian or I'm a Muslim." I don't remember any of that. Yeah, so that's definitely one thing about Kuwait that I really learned a lot from. [00:15:18] Farah Al-Nakib: Was your school mixed as well? [00:15:22] Bassam Ayesh: The school were mainly Palestinians. [00:15:24] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. [00:15:24] Bassam Ayesh: And, you know, a little bit Syrians and... But because our, Kuwaitis did not live in that part of the town, but mainly Palestinians, yeah. [00:15:34] Farah Al-Nakib: Was the school like a, they were private Arabic schools, or were they public, government? [00:15:40] Iyad Jamaly: Public. [00:15:40] Farah Al-Nakib: Public government schools? [00:15:41] Bassam Ayesh: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. [00:15:42] Farah Al-Nakib: But they were mostly Palestinian students. [00:15:45] Bassam Ayesh: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. [00:15:45] Farah Al-Nakib: And teachers as well? [00:15:45] Bassam Ayesh: Teachers were Egyptians, Palestinians, Syrians, mixed. It was a mixed. [00:15:50] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:15:51] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. I remember my math in high school were Egyptian. My physics was Palestinian. My Arabic was Syrian, so it was mixed. [00:16:05] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:16:05] Bassam Ayesh: Mm-hmm. [00:16:07] Farah Al-Nakib: Did you at that time used to go back either to, to Nablus or to Jordan, or did you used to go- [00:16:14] Bassam Ayesh: Never. [00:16:14] Farah Al-Nakib: No. [00:16:16] Bassam Ayesh: Never. I went back 2009. That's one of the videos, I have my kids, we were watching it yesterday. They had a blast, when they were seven and eight. And then, but we went 2009. I took, my wife and my kids. [00:16:31] Farah Al-Nakib: And that was your first time? [00:16:32] Bassam Ayesh: My first time from here. But yeah, never... I mean, I went to Nablus. We went twice. One time I went with my kids and my wife, and then one time I took my mom and my brother, who's Canadian, the older one. [00:16:49] Bassam Ayesh: My mom was insisting that she wanted, one of her things she really wanted to go is, is go see her, where her, my dad had built. Because my dad had built a home in Yafa before he was expelled. So she really wanted to go find it. So she kept telling us, you know, "If you get an opportunity to take me one day, you know, do it." [00:17:18] Bassam Ayesh: So I did. I took her, and then, that was quite an experience. And we, and we got everything on video. Through a bunch of people, bunch of people, we were able... I mean, I don't know how much time you have, but it was, it was... We went to Yafa. When we went to Yafa, we met this one guy, he had really beautiful restaurant right on the water, and he had happened to know, or one of the guys that worked for him, he was married to a gal that's from Dar Ayesh. [00:17:56] Bassam Ayesh: That from her, she introduced us to other Ayesh's family. And then we were able just kind of trying to guess where my dad's home was, and then we finally found the spot where we think it's the spot, and it was all military, military zone. [00:18:18] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:18:20] Bassam Ayesh: But that was a, that was for her it was kind of a good ending because now she knows, you know, that her husband's home s not there, or at least, you know, as opposed to there and nobody's claiming it. [00:18:33] Farah Al-Nakib: Right. Yes. Right. [00:18:36] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. And then it was dramatic also when we tried to find her home in Nablus. That was quite something. We took a trip from Ramallah through the bus going to Nablus, and then, we were sitting in the bus, my mom and I, and then the people in front of us there was a mom and her son. Her son was a taxi driver. So my mom was very friendly. She would talk to anybody. So she's talking to the lady, you know, talking about Falastin and all that. So she was explaining to her that she had bought with her brother, my mom had bought a piece of property with her brother in Mukhayyam Askar, which is in Nablus. [00:19:23] Bassam Ayesh: So the son, when she mentioned Mukhayyam Askar, the taxi driver, the son, he said, "Oh, I know where that is. I'm a taxi driver." And my mom asked him, "Can you take us there?" He said, "I don't have my taxi because I'm in the bus, but I'll tell you, when we get off, I'll tell you how to go there." [00:19:46] Bassam Ayesh: So when we got dropped off, he said, "Just take a taxi and tell him you wanna go to Mukhayyam, it's like ten-minute drive." So we did ee parked, he parked, and then so, like I said, my mom had bought a piece of property, and then my uncle, خالي, did not have enough money. So my mom lent him money in, back in the days, and he had brought a piece of paper for that money that my mom gets one quarter of that land. [00:20:22] Bassam Ayesh: One quarter of that land. So my mom wanted to see it. She's there. So we crossed the street, and then there was like a plaza, like a little plaza like this. And then there's properties behind it. So we walk in. This place is like a supermarket << و أواني منزلية [and home supplies/hardware]. So she asked the guy, he said, so she tells him, "So and so," "What's his name?" She goes, "Khalil Al-Rai is my brother. He bought property here. Do you know anything about it?" And he goes, "Yeah, I do. You're right on it." [00:20:56] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh, oh, wow. [00:20:58] Bassam Ayesh: That's how small. And that's the first place we go to. And she goes, "Really?" He goes, "Yeah." So she said, my mom says, "Can you show us where the property is?" [00:21:08] Bassam Ayesh: "Yeah." So we, he walks us, and he takes us in the back, and he shows us the property. Now, he, of course, هاي بسموها أملاك الغائب [this is what they call absentee property] you know, the- [00:21:18] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:21:19] Bassam Ayesh: So he was, he has his businesses on a land that's not his, but they're not there to claim it. So now it's, he said, "Yeah, you know, this is it," and then, "you know, if you can connect me with the sons so we can settle all this." Because he has, he has multiple stores on the land. [00:21:42] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. And no one from your mom's family was still there. They had left. [00:21:46] Bassam Ayesh: Correct. [00:21:47] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. [00:21:47] Bassam Ayesh: Correct. And then, so he took us to his house, and his dad was there. They were very welcoming, very nice people. And then we connected him with my cousin, the son, because خالي [my uncle] had passed away. [00:22:06] Bassam Ayesh: And then they connected, and then they settled it. They settled. Yeah, they settled, and then they gave my mom her money. And so he connected with my cousin, and then they agreed on a price for the land, and then he gave it to them, and he gave my mom the money. Yeah. [00:22:23] Bassam Ayesh: And then we took her, and then she wanted to see where her house is, where she was married. So we took her to what we call... Have you ever been there? You ever been to Nablus? No. [00:22:34] Iyad Jamaly: No, I've never been to Falastin. [00:22:35] Bassam Ayesh: There's a, what they call الجامع الكبير, the big mosque. So we went there. We settled in. We prayed. توضينا، قعدنا [We performed ablutions, we sat.] We settled for a little bit, and then my mom said, "Okay, let's go." There's an area called Harat al-Habala, in the middle of like a شعبية، منطقة شعبية [working class neighborhood]. [00:22:55] Bassam Ayesh: So we were just walking, and my mom was just kinda looking. And I got this all on tape. Mom's just looking, and then we're just walking, and we're looking at her. You know, "What do you think, Mom?" She says, "No, no, no, let's just keep looking, walking." So we're walking and walking, and then we go, like, an area where they have the guys that sell fruits and vegetables outside, and the guys that sell the knafeh. [00:23:20] Bassam Ayesh: And, and we're just walking through the market, and she's just looking, wondering. And then she's starting to remember. She said, "Okay," then, she goes, "Oh, I remember اللحام, the butcher that was there." And I remember, you know, she was starting to remember. So she would say... And then she asked. And I don't remember the last name of the butcher, but she asked somebody, an older guy, "So what happened to the butcher that was here?" [00:23:49] Bassam Ayesh: And then the guy says, "He's still there. That's his kids running the place." So she start walking, walking, walking, walking. Now she's getting close to her neighborhood where she was married. And then, so as she went, she looked on the right. So it's, like, the market like this, and there's stairs, and there's homes, like apartments up above. [00:24:10] Bassam Ayesh: So, and then she looked to the right. She said, "Hmm, maybe it's this one. May- no, no, no, no, no, no, maybe it's not that one." So we keep walking, we keep walking, and then we saw a set of, like, twenty stairs on the right-hand side. She looked like this. She, she goes, "This is it." So it's me and her and my brother, so we go up, and then she wanted to knock on the door. [00:24:33] Bassam Ayesh: I said, "Mom, you're gonna knock on the door? You don't know who lives here." She said, "Yeah, let's just do it. Let's see what happens." So she knocks on the door, and then this lady opened the door. And then we introduced ourselves. She said, you know, "This is so-and-so. I was married in this house. I have my kids from Jordan looking." [00:24:51] Bassam Ayesh: And she was welcoming. She said, "Can I show my kids where I got married?" And let... And then, so she was Syrian, the lady was Syrian. And then so she walks us in and she goes, "Okay, this is my room. This is your aunt's room," because she lived with her sister too, and her husband at the time. And the kitchen. [00:25:16] Bassam Ayesh: And that was just dramatic. And that's all in one day. So she, so she found her, she found her land, and then she found her, where she was living, on that same day. So that was pretty dramatic. Yeah. [00:25:28] Bassam Ayesh: And then when we got there, كان يوم الإسراء والمعراج [it was the day of the Ascension of the Prophet] so we stopped at the mosque. She was really tired. We hadn't, we don't have a hotel yet. So she stayed at the mosque, my brother and I went and got a hotel in Sheikh Jarrah. The hotel called Ambassador, I remember at the time. But yeah that's one of the stories. [00:25:57] Farah Al-Nakib: And had she been back since? Or this was also her first- [00:26:00] Bassam Ayesh: No, that's it. [00:26:00] Farah Al-Nakib: That's amazing. Yeah. [00:26:01] Bassam Ayesh: That's it. Of course, she carries a Jordanian passport so we had to get her a visa from the Israeli Embassy in Jordan. [00:26:08] Farah Al-Nakib: How easy or difficult was it to go to Yafa, how was that? [00:26:14] Bassam Ayesh: We did it two times. When I took my kids, we went through Jordan. What they call اللينبي [Allenby Bridge], الملك حسين, King Hussein, which is not a good experience. You can see, you can feel the racism, you can feel the mistreatment. I mean, you know, I remember 18-year-old, 19-year-old girls that would just, yell at you, you know, "Yalla, yalla," or, you know, "Hurry up," or, you know, they treat you... [00:26:49] Bassam Ayesh: The lines at the immigration, that was not pleasant. I would never forget that. You know, at one point, my brother and I were praying, waiting for the bus in the hallway, in the waiting room. And then she knows we're praying, and then the bus got there, and we were praying. We're not finished, and she would come, "Hey, hey, yalla, yalla, yalla, yalla, yalla." [00:27:11] Bassam Ayesh: So when I was done, I yelled at her. I said, you know, I cussed her. I said, "Can't you see we're praying? Can you just give us a, you know, a minute or two to finish?" So I remember that, the mistreatment. When we went through the second time, when I went through the south, بسموهة العفولة [they call it Afula] through Sheikh Hussein  بسموه [they call it], which when you cross the border, you're right in like, really close to Tel Aviv and Afula. The interrogation was really, really... Like, it took me five hours there. [00:27:47] Iyad Jamaly: Wow. [00:27:47] Farah Al-Nakib: This was, you were traveling with- [00:27:50] Bassam Ayesh: One time, the 2009 with my family, with my wife and, that was through Jordan. [00:27:57] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah, this time- [00:27:58] Bassam Ayesh: And then the other time was with my brother and my mom. [00:28:01] Farah Al-Nakib: Your mom. And that was the time you said the interrogation was really- [00:28:04] Bassam Ayesh: Yes. Yes. That was bad. They would just go back and forth, back and forth. Uh, "Where are you going?" So we'd tell them, "I have cousins that live in, in Tel Aviv." And then they'd go, you know, they'd go for half hour, 45 minutes, and then come back. [00:28:20] Bassam Ayesh: "Okay, what's their names?" And then I give them their names, and then they go for half hour, 40, come back. "Oh, what do they do for a living?" And they'll go half hour, come 45 minutes, and come back. "Oh, how many children they have?" You know what I mean? Like- [00:28:33] Farah Al-Nakib: Were you all together, like you and your mom and your brother, or they kept you separate? [00:28:36] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. No, together. Together. But they would ask us separately. Like he was, he had a Canadian passport. For some reason he was good, quick, like maybe in an hour. But for me, they just kept asking me. [00:28:49] Farah Al-Nakib: Your brother? [00:28:49] Bassam Ayesh: Even with American passport. Yeah. [00:28:52] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:28:57] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah, and then we went and visited our cousins. We know where they live, and that was fun. They showed us around. They wouldn't let us get a hotel. We stayed with them, which is, he's like one of my dad's cousins that didn't leave. He's the only one that didn't leave, yeah. [00:29:15] Farah Al-Nakib: And they now have Israeli citizenship. [00:29:19] Bassam Ayesh: They have Israeli citizenship. Yeah. They're still there. He would, yeah, they would, they... Lot of, lot of people in a tiny home. [00:29:29] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:29:29] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah, like, he, one of my cousins, he has, like, two bedroom or something, and he wants to marry... Hs kid wanted to get married, and he said, you know, he was telling me he was gonna cut half of that room. [00:29:46] Bassam Ayesh: And then he's gonna have that for his kid, and he's gonna build, like, three beds, bunk beds for the kids. And I was like, "Really? That fits?" And he says, "Yeah, that's the only way we do it." [00:30:00] Farah Al-Nakib: Are they limited or restricted in terms of- [00:30:03] Bassam Ayesh: Building? Oh, yeah. [00:30:05] Farah Al-Nakib: As Palestinians. [00:30:05] Bassam Ayesh: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. He has like a balcony in the front of his house. He said, "I have been fighting for ten years to try to permit this. They won't let me permit it." [00:30:16] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:30:16] Bassam Ayesh: Just to have more space. And he says, "Every year we get, like, a, we get, like, a Jew in our neighborhood, a Jew or two." [00:30:28] Bassam Ayesh: He was telling me. So it's, they, and they try to push us to sell it. They try to, what's the word, entice us or, you know throw good chunk of money so we can leave, but still we're not leaving. You know, millions. [00:30:49] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah, very prime location. I mean, not so much of the house, but the, it's like, ten-minute walk and you're right on the water. [00:30:59] Farah Al-Nakib: And is it- [00:31:00] Bassam Ayesh: Yafa. [00:31:01] Farah Al-Nakib: And is, are his neighbors, is it sort of, like, a Palestinian community within there? [00:31:07] Bassam Ayesh: Mm-hmm, yeah. [00:31:07] Farah Al-Nakib: And so it's, his neighbors are also Arab. [00:31:09] Bassam Ayesh: Mostly, yeah. Yeah. Mostly, but like you said, they try to blend it. [00:31:16] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:31:16] Bassam Ayesh: You know. [00:31:17] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah, yeah. [00:31:20] Bassam Ayesh: You know, push them somehow. And, you know, sometimes people get weak when they offer you millions for a home. They're gonna take it and live somewhere else, and have a nicer home, bigger home. You know, that's just human's nature. We all going to fall for it. [00:31:39] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. Going back a bit, back to when you were growing up in Kuwait. Do you remember much about, like, the Palestinian community? You mentioned, like, in the school it was mostly Palestinians. And I mean, how would you describe the community that was living there, that had gone to Kuwait? [00:32:01] Bassam Ayesh: Everybody busy with work. I mean, and school, you know, education. And like in our family and most families, you know, education was a must. And so we all, you know, grown up to be engineers and doctors and, but the community was, I mean, I could say close. Like I said, no, no problems. I never heard anybody was fighting with a neighbor or over anything. I just don't remember any fights. Yeah. People were there just to make a living. [00:32:52] Bassam Ayesh: So it was just mainly school and, you know, not a lot of fun. I mean, we used to go to the cinema. Like, if I go to play soccer, I get in trouble. If I, once in a while, you know, even I have a date, if I go to the, you know, Cinema Al-Andalus, you know, get in trouble. It's like, "Hey, you going to watch movies instead of, you know, helping your dad?" [00:33:11] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah, so my dad was kind of hard. He, you know, no fun in his, in his curriculum, you know? It's just gotta be all about work. [00:33:23] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:33:24] Bassam Ayesh: But, you know, which is okay. Like I said, I don't blame them for what they went through. Yeah. [00:33:30] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:33:32] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. [00:33:33] Farah Al-Nakib: And what were some of the... Well, you mentioned that your dad was strict, but you said going to things like Cinema Al-Andalus, what were, in Kuwait in the '70s and '80s, what were the kind of things that you would do for fun? [00:33:45] Bassam Ayesh: Oh, yeah, we'd go to the beach. We'd go to the beach. I know my dad had to, he has a, he had a bicycle with a basket in the front. So my dad loved the beach. He would just, he would just close his store sometimes and go to the beach by himself. [00:34:01] Bassam Ayesh: So he used to take us, not as much as I would have liked to, but, we used to do that sometimes. Play soccer, of course. But play soccer everywhere, because you don't have to have- I mean, we used to, we used to play soccer using, using a bottle- [00:34:19] Farah Al-Nakib: Cap. [00:34:19] Bassam Ayesh: A cap. At the school, I remember. Because we're not allowed to have a ball. Yeah, I mean, that's how, serious we were about soccer. Just visiting family, you know, my cousins and- [00:34:33] Farah Al-Nakib: So you did have other cousins and- [00:34:35] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, because they all, most of them went to Kuwait. Yeah, my aunt, my, you know, my uncles, two of them. So we all, we visited, you know. We were same neighborhood kind of. [00:34:54] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:34:57] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah, and then... [00:34:59] Farah Al-Nakib: Was there much, do you remember, I don't know if you remember this, much interaction between, I mean, you mentioned the neighborhood itself being very multi-ethnic, mixed. But do you remember much interaction with other communities around Kuwait or with the wider community, or was it more sort of neighborhoods? [00:35:18] Bassam Ayesh: Just neighborhoods. And like each neighborhood had a name too, mainly Palestinians. [00:35:27] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:35:28] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. Palestinians were the majority, you know, in Nugrah and Hawalli, that area. [00:35:32] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:35:34] Bassam Ayesh: We used to go to Mujamma'a Al-Shamali. Sharie' Beirut [Beirut Street], you probably know where that is. That used to be a good hangout too. Salmiya, we used to go to Salmiya, too much. You know, Hardee's was the... Do you remember Hardee's? [00:35:53] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah, of course. [00:35:57] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah, and then, you know, كنا شوي نروح نغازل [we used to go out flirting a bit]. There used to be a police bus, right in Salmiya always, pick up the guys that go after the girls and flirt and all that. I remember that. But, yeah, those Salmiya used, you know, was fun. [00:36:19] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:36:20] Bassam Ayesh: Or we'll go for clothes. [00:36:22] Farah Al-Nakib: Was this... So at that time, this would've been, like, in the '70s? [00:36:26] Bassam Ayesh: This is '80 now. [00:36:27] Farah Al-Nakib: '80s. So the Salmiya strip, that shopping area was built by then, like, where it was pedestrian- [00:36:34] Bassam Ayesh: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's between, you know, '80. I left in '84. End of '84. [00:36:40] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah ok, so that was there then, yeah. So you left in '84 to go to... [00:36:47] Bassam Ayesh: Went to Toledo. Engineering. I got my, I got my I-20 we call it at the time. So I took my high school diploma to the American Embassy, but you would have, you have to have a, what they call an I-20, which is an, like, an acceptance from university. [00:37:10] Bassam Ayesh: So I had a friend that lived in Ohio at the time, and he helped me get that. I sent him my certificate, and he got me an I-20. I took that to the university, I mean, to the embassy, and I got my DS, they call it a DS, visa, which is a during study visa. They give it to you till you study, and then it becomes not valid. [00:37:35] Bassam Ayesh: So I did that, and then I went to Ohio, studied, I did, it was, language was a must at the time, so I did English. What they call ALI, ALI, A-L-I, English as a Second Language, right? A-L-I, A-L-I, what is it- [00:38:02] Iyad Jamaly: ASL, I think ... [00:38:03] Bassam Ayesh: American Language Institute. [00:38:05] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh, okay. American Language Institute. [00:38:07] Bassam Ayesh: So I did that for a semester or quarter. And then you take the TOEFL exam. And then if you get this, then you go to school, and then you go to college. Some guys, I remember, they took a lot of time to get out of that because their English was not that great. But I had a good English teacher at high school. I think that helped. [00:38:28] Farah Al-Nakib: In Kuwait? [00:38:28] Bassam Ayesh: But in general, in, in Kuwait, whoever comes from Kuwait, their English is way better than the people that come from Jordan, I noticed. Significantly, you noticed. So you could tell the standards are much higher, education in Kuwait than Jordan. Especially in English. [00:38:47] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. [00:38:49] Farah Al-Nakib: And so what made you choose Toledo? Do you have a friend- [00:38:54] Bassam Ayesh: Because of that guy that was there. Yeah, he's the only guy I knew. [00:38:58] Farah Al-Nakib: And did you know him from school from before? [00:39:00] Bassam Ayesh: From Kuwait. [00:39:01] Farah Al-Nakib: So he had gone. [00:39:01] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah, he'd gone before me. He finished his civil engineering and- [00:39:06] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah [00:39:07] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. And he was Christian. He's, and he was actually here a few months. So he's still in Toledo. He's a, he buys homes and owns property and build them. He's doing really good. [00:39:19] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. He, was he also Palestinian? [00:39:21] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. He's Palestinian. [00:39:22] Farah Al-Nakib: He stayed in Toledo. [00:39:23] Bassam Ayesh: He stayed in Toledo. Yeah. [00:39:26] Farah Al-Nakib: Did your brothers or sisters also go to the States? Or leave before you, those who are older than you? [00:39:34] Bassam Ayesh: I have my older sister that passed away. She studied at the University of Kuwait. She studied, she was a teacher, Arabic teacher. [00:39:42] Farah Al-Nakib: And she studied at Kuwait University. [00:39:43] Bassam Ayesh: At Kuwait University. And then she taught at Hawalli للبنات [school for girls]. And then when she came to [inaudible], she continued with her education. My oldest brother went to, Pakistan. [00:39:59] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh, okay. [00:40:00] Bassam Ayesh: He got his master's in math from Karachi University. And then my middle one went to Canada, Montreal. He studied in Montreal. He did some photography for a couple years. He was only there for a couple years. [00:40:16] Bassam Ayesh: He was more of the religious one. So he didn't like the Europe scene or North America scene, so he came back. When he came back, he worked in Jordan, I mean, in Kuwait. And then he had... When my dad, when the invasion... My dad left first, left the supermarket with my brother, the older, the middle brother. So he had it, and then he had to get rid of it. [00:40:50] Bassam Ayesh: Because now he's dealing in the Iraqi dinar. It wasn't worth much. He got in trouble with the kafeel. Kafeel, you know, the sponsor, because she looked at him like he was dealing with the Iraqis, you know. So he was in a bad spot, so he had to leave. [00:41:11] Farah Al-Nakib: Who was the kafeel of the store? So this is the person who was sort of the silent Kuwaiti partner of the store? [00:41:18] Bassam Ayesh: Yes, because, you know, you couldn't have it. [00:41:20] Farah Al-Nakib: So how did, who was, how did the relationship- [00:41:22] Bassam Ayesh: What's his name? [00:41:23] Farah Al-Nakib: Or how did that, how did your dad, let's say, find that person to open the store with? [00:41:27] Bassam Ayesh: I don't know how that happened. But I know it's probably, like, in the, when he first went to Kuwait and opened, he had to do this. [00:41:37] Farah Al-Nakib: And it was the same person throughout. [00:41:39] Bassam Ayesh: It was the same person. Yeah. I remember him. He was, a Persian. He was a Kuwaiti but Persian, so he spoke Farsi, too. There's a lot of Iraqis and, you know, and Persian Kuwaitis in Kuwait, you know like, أيش إسمهم [what is their name]? Al-Babtain, I think. Al-Babtain, صح [right]? I think, aren't they Persian? [00:42:13] Farah Al-Nakib: I think so. And yeah, there's a lot of different, Behbehani, Ma'arafi. Yeah. There's quite a few. [00:42:21] Bassam Ayesh: Right. RIght. [00:42:21] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. So you went to college from... So you came to the States. What was that like? Had you been to the States before? [00:42:29] Bassam Ayesh: No, that was my first time. I remember, when I came, my mom, you know, I was 18. It was cold, Toledo, was... I came December, and I remember I was wearing بدلة [a suit], and then my mom had sewed $1,000 in my... [Gestures.] [00:42:49] Farah Al-Nakib: Into your pants pocket. [00:42:50] Bassam Ayesh: So, yeah, so I had the بدلة مع you know, the under, el pajama under the... And then the شو بسموه السترة الجيلية هذا بسموه [what do they call it, the vest]. [00:43:01] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah, like a, the vest. [00:43:02] Bassam Ayesh: Right. And, the shirt, the tie, and then the البدلة [the suit] coat, and then a coat on top of that. [Laughs.] Oh, my God, it was like when I seen the airplane. [00:43:14] Farah Al-Nakib: That's how you arrived. [00:43:15] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. I remember that, but it was cold. It was really cold when I, yeah, so that was, December, December '84. I don't emember exactly, maybe 10th December '84, and then, you know, Fahad had picked me up, and I stayed with them for a while. And yeah, and it was tough at the beginning. You know, I remember I cried days because just being homesick. [00:43:45] Bassam Ayesh: And, ah, so yeah. So, you know, when I graduated, I was getting ready to go back to Kuwait. I actually had a job lined up from a friend of ours that was as a biomedical. I did a biomedical engineering. [00:43:57] Farah Al-Nakib: That's what you studied in Ohio. [00:43:59] Bassam Ayesh: Yes, yes. [00:43:59] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. [00:44:00] Bassam Ayesh: That's my degree. And then, and then, June or August 1st, like I said I had a surgery on my knee, same day he [Saddam Hussein] invaded [Kuwait], so I- [00:44:10] Farah Al-Nakib: So you graduated from Toledo in what year? [00:44:12] Bassam Ayesh: In June of '90. [00:44:13] Farah Al-Nakib: In June of '90. [00:44:14] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. [00:44:14] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. [00:44:14] Bassam Ayesh: And then I was getting ready to go back to Kuwait. [00:44:16] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. And you had a job lined up you said? [00:44:20] Bassam Ayesh: In Kuwait. [00:44:20] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. Do you remember where? [00:44:22] Bassam Ayesh: At some hospital. I don't know which hospital, but he was, he was like a project manager of a bunch of hospitals, and he's a friend of ours. And he said, "Yeah, just come on." [00:44:37] Farah Al-Nakib: Where did... And you had knee surgery here in the States? [00:44:40] Bassam Ayesh: Mm-hmm, in Toledo. June 1st. [00:44:42] Farah Al-Nakib: What had happened? Why did you have to have- [00:44:44] Bassam Ayesh: Soccer, from soccer. [00:44:45] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. [00:44:45] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. [00:44:46] Farah Al-Nakib: So you were still playing soccer when you were here. [00:44:48] Bassam Ayesh: I was still playing soccer, yeah. [00:44:49] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:44:49] Bassam Ayesh: And then I, you know, said to myself, "I'll just do it here." And then, so I told my family, "I'll do the surgery here, and then some therapy and come." [00:45:00] Farah Al-Nakib: And then on August 2nd- [00:45:02] Bassam Ayesh: And then August 2nd he invaded. I was out of the hospital, couldn't get ahold of them because no lines and... [00:45:10] Farah Al-Nakib: And everyone was there. [00:45:11] Bassam Ayesh: Everyone was there, my mom, my dad, my two brothers, and two sisters. [00:45:18] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:45:19] Bassam Ayesh: Or three sisters. Yeah, three sisters. So I ended up staying because I didn't know what to do at the time. I looked for a job here as an engineer. It was bad time. It was, you know, recession, the war. And then from June or July, August, I did just odd jobs, restaurants and... Till the... So during that time, my dad got rid of his place, you know, through my brothers, and then they all moved to Jordan. Luckily, we had an apartment in Jordan, like a little house that my mom had saved up for and they built in Jordan. [00:46:11] Farah Al-Nakib: So how long... So you were here, how long did you go before you were able to make contact with your family? [00:46:17] Bassam Ayesh: About six months. [00:46:18] Farah Al-Nakib: You had no- [00:46:19] Bassam Ayesh: No contact. Till they liberated, till they liberated Kuwait. [00:46:24] Farah Al-Nakib: Did you hear anything from people or- [00:46:28] Bassam Ayesh: Yes, yes, through relatives I would hear, sometimes good, sometimes bad, you know. Some of the guys got beat up, you know. Just the things that took place. But, so when they moved to Jordan, I went and visited, I wanna say January, February, maybe March of '91. And then I was looking, sitting with my mom and I was looking through the paper, and then my mom says, "You know, why don't you just get a job here in Jordan?" [00:47:04] Bassam Ayesh: I said, "You know, Jordan, there's no, the money is not good, you know," you know from Kuwait, you know, dinar the difference in currency, the strength of the currency is, you cannot compare. And, you know, me living here. So I tried, and they were gonna pay me, like, 300 dinar, I mean, like $300 worth. [00:47:27] Bassam Ayesh: You know, for an engineer, that wasn't, just not even enough for transportation. So looking, looking for a job, and then I see this, needing a biomedical engineer to work in Yemen in the paper. And I was reading in front of my mom. "Mom, they need, they want a biomedical engineer in Yemen. What do you think?" She says, "Yeah, why, why not?" [00:47:51] Bassam Ayesh: I said, "Mom, Yemen, Yemen? I mean, I mean, if you... They're primitive, Mom, you know, they're..." She says, "Well, at least you'll be close to us." So she was on me, you know. She says, "You know, you're not gonna lose anything. Just check it out." So I call the guy. I tell him I just graduated. He says, "Okay, yeah, I'll offer you interview." So he interviewed me in Jordan and he liked what he heard. He said, "Yeah, we want you to come to Yemen." Believe it or not, I went to Yemen. I said, "Okay." So I wasn't done from here. I still had my apartment in Ohio. [00:48:29] Bassam Ayesh: So I said, "Okay, I'll go wrap up my things, then I'll go to Yemen." So I did. I came here, got done with... Because I really didn't wanna be here. [00:48:40] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:48:41] Bassam Ayesh: I wanted to live in a Muslim country. So I was done. Believe it or not, I went to Yemen. So they put me in this hotel, and then they promised me a home and to work in Taizz as a, and run this hospital. And then, and they were feeding me, but, no salary. [00:49:03] Bassam Ayesh: They didn't give me any salary. So I was waiting for them to offer, you know, by end of the month to offer me any money. He said, "We can't give you any money till you start." You know? And then the company was legit. They showed me, you know, even the manager was British. So, you know, first few days when I go checked out the company, yeah, it's legit. [00:49:24] Bassam Ayesh: They do multi things. But they would not pay me. And he goes, "You know, you know, شو خصران أنت [what do you have to lose]?" I told him, "Well, you know, I don't have any money." I mean, all I had on me is maybe $1,500, that's it. So I ran out of money, and then I end up leaving. I said, "If you don't pay me, I'm leaving." So I, you know, went back from Yemen, went and stayed a week in Jordan, and from Jordan came to Ohio with one of my friends for about a week, and then California. Through Haitham's friend that was here. [00:50:02] Farah Al-Nakib: So do you remember how, so what, you just did a couple of months in Yemen? [00:50:07] Bassam Ayesh: In Yemen, two months. [00:50:07] Farah Al-Nakib: Two months. [00:50:08] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. [00:50:08] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. I'm gonna, I wanna come back to what you were just talking about when you left and how you came here to California. But before, just to back track, so you said your dad left the store. Was that after the liberation? So they stayed throughout the occupation, or did they leave during, your family? [00:50:26] Bassam Ayesh: My, he left during. [00:50:28] Farah Al-Nakib: He left during. [00:50:29] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. [00:50:30] Farah Al-Nakib: And went to Jordan. But your- [00:50:31] Bassam Ayesh: Right. [00:50:31] Farah Al-Nakib: With your mom? [00:50:32] Bassam Ayesh: With my mom. [00:50:33] Farah Al-Nakib: But your brother stayed. [00:50:34] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah, right. [00:50:35] Farah Al-Nakib: Till the liberation. [00:50:37] Bassam Ayesh: Till the, no, before, uh... I think before. He left before the liberation, because he felt like he was in danger. [00:50:47] Farah Al-Nakib: In what way? Do you remember? [00:50:49] Bassam Ayesh: Oh, let me, let me back up. Let me back up. I think now that I remember. My middle brother had left before my oldest. Now I remember. My middle brother left before my oldest brother. So he my middle brother, I think, now I'm thinking. [00:51:08] Bassam Ayesh: He felt threatened by الكفيل [the kafeel, or sponsor]. She had said, she came looking for him, for my brother. So he felt, I think, threatened, and then he left, lived with my oldest brother, which he never worked the store. He was working في الاحوال المدنية اذا بتذكري مجمع رحاب إلي كان بالشعب [in the civil service commission if you remember that was in Rihab Complex in Sha'ab]. He was working there. So he had nothing to do with the business, my dad's business. [00:51:36] Bassam Ayesh: But then when he felt threatened, he left Kuwait, thinking that the kafeel might do something. Like, "Oh, you know, he was working with the Iraqis." That's their take on it. It's like, he was working with Iraqis. Well, you know, it's just a dukaan, it's a supermarket. He's not gonna say, "I can't"- [00:51:58] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh, just because it was open and- [00:51:59] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah, yeah. It was open. He was in business. You know, he was dealing in the Iraqi dinar just like everybody else. But she looked at it like, you know, he was working with them. But anyways, so he felt threatened, so my oldest brother took over, and then he's the one that sold it, sold it like dirt cheap just to- [00:52:16] Farah Al-Nakib: To the kafeel or just to, or to who? [00:52:19] Bassam Ayesh: To somebody else. Not to the kafeel. Yeah. And then he moved. So they both moved to Jordan, and then, you know, two educated guys, they went and opened restaurants in Jordan. [00:52:31] Farah Al-Nakib: So they didn't, your family didn't think that or plan that once, you know, the dust settled they would go back to Kuwait? [00:52:40] Bassam Ayesh: No, because they weren't welcome at the time. You remember, the Jordanians were not welcome in Kuwait. It was, you know, supposedly what Arafat had said that they would, you know, which is... But I can see the Kuwaitis' point of view because some of them did, but some of them didn't. You know, some people stayed and some people... [00:53:01] Bassam Ayesh: But most people left, of course, because they felt like the Kuwaitis are gonna take it out on them, which they did on some, you know, Kuwaitis did take it out on Palestinians. So that's the reason. And then my dad was, you know, older, so, and he had a home, so he felt like he could... And I was helping them financially from here too. [00:53:28] Bassam Ayesh: You know, Jordan was not expensive, so if I send $200, $300 a month, you know, it was, it was good money for Jordan, so they were making it okay. My brothers could not live in Jordan, so one of them, the middle one, moved to Greece. He moved to Greece. And then I remember I went visited, when I visit them, their situation was really bad. [00:53:50] Bassam Ayesh: My, the younger one, he opened a restaurant, and he was doing, like, falafel, and he was frying fish. Like an area was all, the Egyptian where the معامل الطوب و مطوب [brick factories and brickmakers]. And it was like he's, I looked at him, it's like, "My brother, this educated guy, he's doing this?" [00:54:12] Bassam Ayesh: And then my other brother also opened another restaurant. It was, like, a little tiny place, and he's the one that had the mathematician. It's like, so it was, it was sad to watch my brothers, you know, doing what they're doing, you know, with their degrees. So one of them, the middle one, went to Greece to make a better living, and then the oldest one went to Canada and migrate, you know. [00:54:39] Bassam Ayesh: So they, he got his Canadian citizenship, took his kids there with him, and then he moved for a few years, and then he moved back to Dubai. He wanted his kids to grow in a Muslim country. [00:54:56] Farah Al-Nakib: And did you keep in touch with other members of the Palestinian community that had been in Kuwait? Or did your family? [00:55:07] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah, yeah. We do. I mean, a lot of, a lot of stories. I mean, one neighbor of ours, we saw her in Falastin في بيت صفافة [in Beit Safafa]. I mean, it's a long story, and there's a lot of stories that tells you how small this world is. Our neighbor in Kuwait, and we have a friend here. The friend here his wife's sister lives in Beit Safafa also. So, when we wanted to go visit, he had told us about his... شو بسموها...مرت [what do they call it, the wife]... You know what? I'm gonna skip, this is just too confusing of a story. I'm gonna skip that one. [00:56:07] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. [00:56:07] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah, but it's yeah. So two people in that same town, half of it was Israeli control, and half of it is... One was a neighbor from Kuwait, one was somebody that we knew here. That lived in that same town. [00:56:22] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah, yeah. [00:56:23] Bassam Ayesh: But, and I have others, who I have to... My high school, number two and number three على الكويت كنو من صفي [ranked graduates in all of Kuwait were from my class], in '84. Ayman Abdelfattah Abdulghani, and Hatem Al-Agha. هذول الثنين كانوا بصفي [those two were in my class]. We had very good students in my- [00:56:55] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:56:57] Bassam Ayesh: So Ayman Abdelfattah, he got like 98 something. So he went to, he was doctor by the Jamat Kuwait, University of Kuwait. So here, like, I want to say six years ago, I put on Facebook trying somebody created kind of Kuwait Hawali '84. So I put a little, "Guys, anybody know what happened to Ayman Abdelfatah, Hatem Al-Agha? [00:57:26] Bassam Ayesh: They were the second in the Al Kuwait," kinda, kinda. So one by one by one by one, Ayman said, "Hey, it's me," and he, I got in touch with him. I got his number. I called him. He's a surgeon in Hawaii. [00:57:43] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh, wow. Okay. [00:57:44] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. I said, "What made you leave Kuwait?" You know, we talked. He said, "Oh, it's a long story." So he went to Alabama, studied. He went to Cleveland. So he did, like, multiple... He said I was, he was doing lungs, heart transplant. [00:58:05] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [00:58:05] Bassam Ayesh: And then he got tired of that, and then he moved to heart. He was, he's just a genius. So I saw him last year. I saw him last year, and then we met in Riverside. [00:58:16] Bassam Ayesh: But just to tell you how small world is, so when I contacted him, so we're talking, and then... So this is Ayman Abdelfattah. I studied with him eight years. He was the front desk at the class. He was the front desk, and always  الأول الأول  الأول الأول [the first, the first, the first, the first]. [00:58:43] Bassam Ayesh: So when I talked to him, so I am... And then I have my friend here, Saleh, which he went to school with me in Toledo. So now remember Ayman Abdelfattah from Kuwait and then this guy from Toledo. So I was telling this story about Ayman to my friend Saleh. And I said, and I said, "Saleh, telling you this story..." [00:59:08] Bassam Ayesh: And then he goes, "Ayman Abdelfattah, the surgeon in Hawaii?" And I said, "Yeah." He said, "He's married to my cousin." [00:59:15] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh my God. [00:59:16] Bassam Ayesh: My first cousin. So to make a long story short, I hooked him up, and he invited us over. So we went and met at his house in Riverside last year. He invited us over for dinner, and he has a son, Abu Hamza. He has, like five kids, one of them going to Costa Mesa. [00:59:36] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh, yeah. [00:59:36] Bassam Ayesh: That graduated as an engineer, and he's working there, so... But that was, that was a story. [00:59:42] Farah Al-Nakib: That's amazing. [00:59:42] Bassam Ayesh: So now they're connected too. [00:59:46] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. Yeah. It's a small world. [00:59:47] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah, it is a small world. [00:59:48] Farah Al-Nakib: And it's... Yeah. [00:59:49] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. [00:59:50] Farah Al-Nakib: So you- Oh sorry, go ahead. [00:59:52] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah, and then I was telling these two stories. This, these two stories that I was just telling you, I was telling them in front of my CPA. He lives in Santa Maria. He has a brother. His brother was here visiting from Jordan. So I was telling the, you know, he invite us over for dinner. So I was telling these two stories to those two guys, and then my CPA's brother was saying, "Uh, Saleh? Saleh that went to Dayton State?" He says, "Yeah." He says, "Saleh, I went to school with him. We had, we ate بط أكلنا بط مع بعض [duck, we ate duck together]." [Inaudible.] [01:00:29] Bassam Ayesh: So I pick up the phone, and I said, "Saleh?" And then I connected... I didn't tell him who he was, and they were talking, and then he goes, "Oh, my gosh." And this is a small world. Yeah. So now they're connected. [01:00:42] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. Did you ever find, so you said it was Ayman Abelfattah. Who was the, the second that- [01:00:48] Bassam Ayesh: Saleh. [01:00:49] Farah Al-Nakib: The one who always came first and second. [01:00:51] Bassam Ayesh: Oh, Hatem. Hatem, I didn't hear from him. But people told me that he's a mechanical engineer. One said he's in Chicago, but I didn't hear from him. [01:00:59] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. Yeah. [01:00:59] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. [01:01:00] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [01:01:00] Bassam Ayesh: But other ones showed up that, you know. And then we exchanged pictures. [01:01:05] Farah Al-Nakib: From Kuwait, from school? [01:01:06] Bassam Ayesh: From Kuwait, from school. There's that one picture that we, yeah, we have that we just pass around. You know, "Who's this, who's this?" [01:01:12] Farah Al-Nakib: And are a lot of them here in the States, or in Jordan? [01:01:19] Bassam Ayesh: A lot of them are in America. A lot of them. One of them is a, he's a, what do you call it? دكتور تخدير [anesthesiologist] in Georgia, Laith, Laith something. And one is in San Diego. And then, so we're on Facebook. [01:01:33] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. Your class of '84. [01:01:36] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. [01:01:36] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [01:01:36] Bassam Ayesh: Class of '84. Yeah, yeah. [01:01:41] Farah Al-Nakib: And then you mentioned that, you, so you came back to Ohio. [01:01:45] Bassam Ayesh: Uh-huh. [01:01:46] Farah Al-Nakib: After the two months in Yemen. And then you said you had a friend who brought you or who helped you come here, or yeah. [01:01:54] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah, Hamdi was working. Hamdi, I graduated with him, from Kuwait. And then he ended up staying. He didn't come to school here. He worked after high school في بنك الخليج [at Gulf Bank]. He was a computer guy. So he worked there, and then... He got in a fight with the police. He was a bodybuilder. My friend Hamdi. [01:02:23] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [01:02:24] Bassam Ayesh: So he went to, he coming back from, كان ساكن في الجابرية [he was living in Jabriya]. So coming back from the gym, he went, going home. You know, we used to hang out outside العمارات, the buildings. So standing with the guys and then... In Kuwait, sometimes they don't like a lot of people hanging out, like when they see big group of people, they don't, they don't like that. [01:02:50] Bassam Ayesh: Especially if there's an incident that took place, something happened, a problem, or somebody got shot, which, you know, rarely happens, but sometimes at some point, they just don't like to see more than four or five people together. So he was with the guys and then دورية وقفت [a police car stopped] and said, "Hey, صعدوا" [go upstairs], you know. [01:03:16] Bassam Ayesh: My friend Hamdi said, "We don't have a place نصعدله، أنتو عندكم دوانيات احنا ما عندنا ديوانية [to go up to, you Kuwaitis have diwaniyyas, we don't have a diwaniyya]. He said... تعرف الديوانية [To Iyad: Do you know the diwaniyya?] [01:03:28] Iyad Jamaly: Yeah. [01:03:29] Bassam Ayesh: يعني مجلس [meaning majlis]. [01:03:30] Farah Al-Nakib: The gathering. [01:03:31] Bassam Ayesh: The gathering. [01:03:35] Iyad Jamaly: Yeah. [01:03:35] Bassam Ayesh: So they got out of the car, and they wanted to restrain him, and according to him, you know, he beat them up, and he got beat, and then all of a sudden, more cars come in, so they got him. حطوه بالنذارة بالسجن [they put him in prison] and then طلعوا فيه قرار تسفير [they took out a deportation order on him]. [01:03:57] Bassam Ayesh: They wanna deport him, you know, because he's... Now, his dad is Syrian. His mom is Palestinian, but I think he, he carries a Syrian passport. So he, then he got, from that incident, he said, you know, was like, "I just don't wanna live here." So he came and visited me in eighty- I wanna say, I haven't graduatedثث at the time. I wanna say maybe '87, '88. And then he, so he came as a visiting, visitor visa, and then he decided he wanted to send his resignation. He didn't wanna go back. Yeah. So he did, and he ended up staying here. [01:04:42] Bassam Ayesh: And then, so he, that's in Ohio, so I got him a job in, like, a liquor store, and I remember they were paying him $2.50 an hour at the time. [01:04:53] Bassam Ayesh: And this Black neighborhood, you know, downtown, it's like areas where, you know, you hear every few months somebody get shot and it was dangerous, but he had no choice. You know, that's all he could get with not having papers. [01:05:08] Bassam Ayesh: So he did that, and then for a while, and then he came to California through Haitham, because Haitham was in the same building. He was his neighbor. So he came here. [01:05:19] Farah Al-Nakib: In Kuwait, he had been his- [01:05:20] Bassam Ayesh: From, now from Ohio. [01:05:21] Farah Al-Nakib: No, he had been his neighbor from the same building in Kuwait. [01:05:24] Bassam Ayesh: In Kuwait Yes, so he, yeah. Yeah. That's how he knew him. [01:05:26] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [01:05:27] Bassam Ayesh: So he came to Haitham. He worked with him in the pizza place here in Atascadero. [01:05:33] Bassam Ayesh: And then, and then I came a year and a half after, so he brought me here. [01:05:40] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. [01:05:41] Bassam Ayesh: And there was another guy, Ayman. You know Ayman? Ayman, you know Ayman. [01:05:44] Farah Al-Nakib: Mm-hmm. [01:05:45] Bassam Ayesh: With the glasses. He's... [01:05:47] Iyad Jamaly: No, I don't think so. [01:05:48] Bassam Ayesh: Maybe if you see him. [01:05:48] Iyad Jamaly: Maybe if I saw him I'd recognize him. Yeah. [01:05:51] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah, he came, too. He was with us, and then he came after, Hamdi, and then I came. And then we worked in the pizza business. Yeah. And then we split up. He went to the Bay Area. I opened this. Yeah. [01:06:05] Farah Al-Nakib: So what year was that you came to California? [01:06:09] Bassam Ayesh: '91. [01:06:10] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. [01:06:10] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. [01:06:12] Farah Al-Nakib: And... Here in Atascadero. [01:06:15] Bassam Ayesh: Here, for a while, I worked for Haitham. I ran his Atascadero store here in, on the other side of town. Yeah. Where Fatte's is, in that same area. [01:06:25] Bassam Ayesh: And then, I worked for him maybe three or four years, and then I decided I wanted to do something else. I went to San Jose, worked, cars, car sales for about a year. Hamdi was, because Hamdi was working for him in Paso, and then Hamdi left Haitham before me, and then he went to the Bay Area, and then I wanted something different. So I went to the, lived with Hamdi in San Jose. He worked for Round Table, and at the same time he was working about opening his own place. [01:07:01] Bassam Ayesh: And then I lived, I lived with him. I was selling cars. He was going to Round Table, working Round Table, and he opened his own. And then I moved back to work with Haitham for a couple more years, and then I opened this. [01:07:16] Farah Al-Nakib: And Haitham- [01:07:17] Bassam Ayesh: This is from '90... Now, this is from '91 to '96. I opened this in '96. [01:07:22] Farah Al-Nakib: This location, so we're in Bravo Pizza now, just so people listening to this will know. [01:07:26] Bassam Ayesh: Right. Right. [01:07:26] Farah Al-Nakib: In Atascadero. So this was your first location. [01:07:29] Bassam Ayesh: Correct. [01:07:30] Farah Al-Nakib: In '96. And Haitham had... And it was Antonia's then? It was called- [01:07:35] Bassam Ayesh: It was- No, it was Pizza Express. [01:07:37] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh, yes. Okay. [01:07:38] Bassam Ayesh: Pizza Express. [01:07:38] Farah Al-Nakib: Right. [01:07:38] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. [01:07:39] Farah Al-Nakib: And so you opened this in '96. [01:07:45] Bassam Ayesh: Right. [01:07:45] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. And so, and you live here in Atascadero? [01:07:48] Bassam Ayesh: I live in Atascadero. Yes. [01:07:50] Farah Al-Nakib: And what was that like opening this business? [01:07:54] Bassam Ayesh: A lot of people would say, "Hey, Atascadero, why'd you pick Atascadero?" You know? So it's just because of my friends were here. [01:08:01] Farah Al-Nakib: Mm-hmm. [01:08:01] Bassam Ayesh: Again, nothing partic- you know, special about Atascadero. And some of my friends say, "Hey, why you live in Atascadero?" Because it's just a small little town, you know, white. I never felt anything but friendly people here. Not sure where they get that reputation, but, it's just been, community is great. I like it. Close to work, close to house, and everything's so close. I don't have to drive to go to the store. I got two gyms here, all walking distance. So why move? I guess, they say if not broken, don't fix it, right? [01:08:46] Farah Al-Nakib: Right. And do you have... Are you, do you have family here? [01:08:49] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. I have a wife and, two kids, three kids. [01:08:52] Farah Al-Nakib: You have three... How old are your kids? [01:08:54] Bassam Ayesh: The boys are 24 and 20. And then the girl is 14, almost 14, maybe next week. [01:09:01] Farah Al-Nakib: So did you meet your wife here? [01:09:02] Bassam Ayesh: I met my wife in Jordan. [01:09:04] Farah Al-Nakib: In Jordan? [01:09:04] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. Arranged marriage. [01:09:06] Farah Al-Nakib: Mm-hmm. [01:09:06] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. [01:09:08] Farah Al-Nakib: Do you, how old were you when you got married? [01:09:10] Bassam Ayesh: I was 33. [01:09:12] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. [01:09:12] Bassam Ayesh: Mm-hmm. [01:09:13] Farah Al-Nakib: But so you were living here at that time. [01:09:15] Bassam Ayesh: I was living here, yeah, and I went shopping for a wife. [Laughs.] And that was actually quite a story too because when I went and, you know, I went through and I said, "Okay, mom, line them up." You know, I had- So, so she lined them up. She said, "Okay." So, you know, I get there, I have two weeks, and then, you know, we go and go through, I probably went through maybe ten. And then, uh, and I didn't want anybody with hijab at the time. [01:09:47] Bassam Ayesh: You know, living here, I didn't want somebody with hijab. And then I... At the, two days before I leave, my brother's wife, which is what they call that, sister-in-law? She had a cousin that she had mentioned two days before, and she had told my mom. And then, and then my mom goes, "Oh, yeah, huh," you know. [01:10:21] Bassam Ayesh: She goes, she'll run it by me. I said, "You know, Mom, I don't have time now. Just next time. Let's just do it next time. I'm leaving the day after." She said, "Well, you're not gonna lose. Just go see her." I said, "No, Mom, I don't." And so she's trying to ... So I remember. And then, so, so she talked me into it. I said, "Mom, she's wearing hijab anyways, and I don't want a woman wearing hijab. Let's just, let's just forget it." She was after me till we did. My dad had a '84 Toyota Cressida that he brought from Kuwait. [01:10:50] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh, yeah. [01:10:53] Bassam Ayesh: But it was, it was not fun to drive, too, and they lived, they lived maybe, like, if it's not traffic, it's probably a 30-minute drive, but traffic makes it hard, and then the car, it's old and... [01:11:07] Bassam Ayesh: So we went, and then, and it was my mom, me, my sister, and her relative. So, and then I see, and then we go in and I see her, and then, you know, I liked her, you know. I liked the way she looks, and she brings a coffee, of course, and... And then, so, so we leave, and then at the doorstep my mom goes, "What do you think?" [01:11:37] Bassam Ayesh: And I go, "Uuuh, well, let me think about it. Let me..." She said, "Well, you don't have time. You have to make a decision now," like that. I said, "Mom, give me a couple days." Says, "You don't have a couple days." She said, "Just come and see her tomorrow, and then if we, you like her, then we'll talk." So I did. I came by myself next day. [01:11:59] Bassam Ayesh: Spent some time with her. We talked. I really liked her. And then, and then my mom goes, "Then why don't you just stay another week?" So I pushed it a week. The third day we went and got the engagement rings and all that, and we had an engagement party at her house. And then, and then I came back here, and it was six months just over the phone relationship. And then I went and married her in July. [01:12:32] Farah Al-Nakib: Of which year? [01:12:33] Bassam Ayesh: Of 2000. [01:12:34] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh, okay. [01:12:35] Bassam Ayesh: Mm-hmm. [01:12:36] Farah Al-Nakib: And then she came right back, she came with you. [01:12:37] Bassam Ayesh: And then I applied for her in the embassy there. [01:12:41] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [01:12:41] Bassam Ayesh: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. [01:12:43] Farah Al-Nakib: And how did she like it here when she first came? [01:12:45] Bassam Ayesh: Oh, she was... I had a Mitsubishi Diamante, I remember, in '92 or something, and then I picked her up from the- And then when we had my car, from LA to here, so it's like, and it was night. [01:13:01] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh, right. [01:13:02] Bassam Ayesh: And never been out of her house, let alone to a different country, you know. She was like, you know, "Where's this guy taking me?" It was just like taking forever and forever to get home. Yeah. It's just, you know, hang in. So she was, she said she was nervous. But, so she was... It was hard in the beginning. [01:13:21] Bassam Ayesh: It was hard because she didn't know anybody in, you know, Atascadero. And my wife's just kind of, she doesn't assimilate really easy. She doesn't, she doesn't care for, you know, unfortunate, but she doesn't, not brave enough to have, like a neighbor, friends that, English speaking, and she just like her culture. [01:13:53] Bassam Ayesh: So, but then with time, she adjusted. In September, or no, 9/11 that was, my son was a year old, Malik. That's happened 2001, right? She went to the store and then, and then she came back, and she's like shaking. Said, "What's the matter with you?" She says, "People were just looking at me, and I'm just scared." [01:14:31] Bassam Ayesh: And then... So I talked her into removing the hijab at the time. So she did, because she really felt threatened, Atascadero. So she did, she took it off for I wanna say maybe a couple years, and then she- [01:14:46] Farah Al-Nakib: Put it back. [01:14:46] Bassam Ayesh: Put it back on. Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, ever since, now, now she's adjusting real well. But back in the days, it, you know, first couple years, three years, it was really hard. Yeah. Because she didn't know anybody, and like I said, she wasn't comfortable with the language and, mm-hmm. [01:15:04] Farah Al-Nakib: So how was it for her, but then also for you, I know you knew some people here already. You had a few friends. But then getting to know, like, the other, the Arab community or the... Because you mentioned your wife liked to sort of stay close to her culture. [01:15:19] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. [01:15:19] Farah Al-Nakib: What was that like, getting to know the wider community here? [01:15:23] Bassam Ayesh: If it wasn't for her, I probably would not be with the community. [01:15:27] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah? [01:15:28] Bassam Ayesh: I'm not, yeah, I'm not, I don't... I mean, I am very, I think I'm very social, but when I was single, I think maybe I just was just busy working. I mean, I knew Amjed. I knew the guys. I knew the guys. But just, I was, I worked a lot before I got married. And I wasn't, social life was not, I mean, just my friend, but I mean, community, the mosque, that wasn't part of my priority, you know? [01:16:02] Farah Al-Nakib: But when she came she started. [01:16:03] Bassam Ayesh: So she, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely. Going, having the kids, and yeah. Then I became more involved in the community. I mean, I was more involved here. I mean, I coached soccer for 15 years in a row here with my kids, and volunteering. And so I'm involved in the community here. And wherever I go, people know me. [01:16:29] Bassam Ayesh: But, but now, yeah. Especially with the issue of Palestine now too, that kind of gives me a drive and to do whatever. We all feel like we're not doing enough. You know? And then anger is building up every day, every day, because I'm just tired of the talk and no action by anybody, including ourselves, you know? But yeah, so it's just frustration. [01:17:00] Farah Al-Nakib: And do your kids... How do they sort of learn about, you know, your Palestinian culture, Arab, or through their mom or through you? [01:17:12] Bassam Ayesh: From us, from us, and then I took my kids two years. I send them two kids to Jordan. [01:17:17] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh, you did? [01:17:17] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. When my kids were, I wanna say eight and nine. So they went to Jordanian school, private school for two years. [01:17:26] Farah Al-Nakib: You all went for two years? [01:17:27] Bassam Ayesh: I sent the mom. [01:17:28] Farah Al-Nakib: You sent them on their own. [01:17:29] Bassam Ayesh: I sent the mom with them. [01:17:30] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh okay, with them, okay. [01:17:31] Bassam Ayesh: And then I'd go visit. [01:17:33] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [01:17:34] Bassam Ayesh: And that was a great experience. [01:17:35] Farah Al-Nakib: Why did- [01:17:35] Bassam Ayesh: That's the best thing I've done. Because they've learned the language. So now they speak it fluently. [01:17:40] Farah Al-Nakib: Was that the goal, to get them to learn the language? [01:17:43] Bassam Ayesh: Yes. Yeah. And reading. [01:17:44] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [01:17:45] Bassam Ayesh: So they read and write, the boys. Not the girl, but the boys are good in, you know, just being in the streets helped. So that was, that was good. That was- [01:18:00] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [01:18:01] Bassam Ayesh: I'm glad I did that, so I always recommend that even though, you know, your kids are here, I'd send them. I know it, sacrifice is hard if you're away from the wife. But it's... When you see them speaking Arabic, it's worth it. Because, you know, sometimes you say things in Arabic, it's different than, you know- [01:18:20] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [01:18:20] Bassam Ayesh: To deliver a message. [01:18:22] Iyad Jamaly: Yeah. [01:18:22] Bassam Ayesh: You say it in Arabic. [01:18:24] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [01:18:24] Bassam Ayesh: Especially the cussing words. [Laughs.] [01:18:27] Iyad Jamaly: Yeah. [01:18:29] Farah Al-Nakib: And did they stay in the area here? Because you mentioned they're 24 and 20. [01:18:32] Bassam Ayesh: And 20, yeah. You never met my kids? [01:18:34] Farah Al-Nakib: Mm-mm. [01:18:34] Bassam Ayesh: Oh, okay. [01:18:35] Farah Al-Nakib: No. So they're all in the area? [01:18:37] Bassam Ayesh: They're all in the area. Now they're both here. One of them came... Malik, you know Malik? [01:18:42] Iyad Jamaly: Uh, no. I think I know the younger one. [01:18:45] Bassam Ayesh: You don't know Malik? Want me to show you a picture? Or no, not right now? Where's my phone? Where's my phone? Oh, you know him if you see him, I'm sure. [01:18:55] Iyad Jamaly: Yeah, I think if I saw him, yeah. [01:19:03] Bassam Ayesh: This is Jerusalem. This is my brother and I in Jerusalem. [Shows photo on phone.] [01:19:07] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh, yeah. Oh, that's a beautiful picture [01:19:12] Bassam Ayesh: That's Sireen. [01:19:14] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh, she's 14? [01:19:15] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. [01:19:15] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh, she's beautiful. [01:19:16] Bassam Ayesh: She will be next week. And... [01:19:26] Iyad Jamaly: In that picture- [01:19:26] Bassam Ayesh: Well, you know my wife, right? [01:19:28] Farah Al-Nakib: No, what's- [01:19:29] Bassam Ayesh: You never met my wife? [01:19:30] Farah Al-Nakib: What's her name? [01:19:31] Bassam Ayesh: Eman. [01:19:31] Farah Al-Nakib: I don't think so. Maybe if I see her picture I might. [01:19:35] Bassam Ayesh: OK. [Shows photo to Iyad.] [01:19:42] Iyad Jamaly: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I recognize him. [01:19:44] Bassam Ayesh: Malik. [01:19:44] Iyad Jamaly: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:19:45] Farah Al-Nakib: He's the oldest? [01:19:46] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. [01:19:46] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. [01:19:49] Bassam Ayesh: That's his graduation. And you've seen us on the- [01:19:58] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh, yes, yes, yes. I have seen her, yeah. [01:20:00] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. [01:20:01] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. And this is... [01:20:03] Bassam Ayesh: And that's Malik... [01:20:04] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh, that's Ma- Okay. [01:20:06] Bassam Ayesh: And that's Sireen. That's my nephew in Sacramento. He's with him. He's living with him now. [01:20:11] Farah Al-Nakib: And your middle son is- [01:20:13] Bassam Ayesh: Zaid. Yeah. [01:20:14] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. Do you know him? [01:20:15] Iyad Jamaly: Yeah, I know Zaid, yeah. [01:20:22] Bassam Ayesh: He graduated a week before. [01:20:24] Iyad Jamaly: Oh, okay. [01:20:24] Bassam Ayesh: This is University of the Pacific. [01:20:27] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh, he just graduated? [01:20:28] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. He's finished his biology. Yeah. He's waiting to go to dental school. [01:20:31] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh, okay. [01:20:33] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. He's tallest, tall. [01:20:36] Farah Al-Nakib: So none of them went to Cal Poly? [01:20:37] Bassam Ayesh: No. Mistake. [01:20:42] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah, so but Malik is here now. [01:20:44] Iyad Jamaly: Yeah. He's back? [01:20:46] Bassam Ayesh: He's back just for the weekend. [01:20:48] Iyad Jamaly: Okay. [01:20:49] Farah Al-Nakib: And so where does he live? [01:20:50] Bassam Ayesh: Sacramento now. [01:20:51] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh, Sacramento. Okay. [01:20:52] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. He may, he may come back. He got engaged. [01:20:54] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. Oh mabrook. [01:20:55] Bassam Ayesh: Malik. So my, you know, his mom went after him. [01:21:02] Farah Al-Nakib: He just recently got engaged? [01:21:03] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. Few mon- in J-... Well, it's a year almost. [01:21:07] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. [01:21:07] Iyad Jamaly: Okay. [01:21:08] Bassam Ayesh: So he's applied for her fiance visa. [01:21:11] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh, where... She's in... Jordan? [01:21:12] Bassam Ayesh: She's in Jordan, yeah. [01:21:14] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. [01:21:14] Bassam Ayesh: So whenever she gets her papers, he's gonna go and marry her in Jordan insha'Allah, and bring her. Yeah. [01:21:23] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh great. Yeah. [01:21:24] Bassam Ayesh: Mm-hmm. [01:21:26] Farah Al-Nakib: Did you have any questions you wanted to- [01:21:28] Iyad Jamaly: Yeah, there is some things that are, like the first thing I wanted to go back to was when you were talking about your, the visit back to Falastin with your mom, and you said how so much happened in one day, and how that whole experience was very dramatic. And I just wanted to, like, kind of revisit that and just ask about, like, what kind of emotions she was feeling and the things that you saw from her. [01:21:52] Bassam Ayesh: Oh, she was so... I mean, she was, she wouldn't say anything. She would just, you know, like, her looks. Like, she was so happy that you could see it on her looks. [01:22:04] Iyad Jamaly: Yeah. [01:22:05] Bassam Ayesh: يعني [I mean], that was... I'm so, I'm so glad that I did that for her. She was just, you know, just seeing the Aqsa and  الإسراء والمعراج [the Ascension of the Prophet] at the time, كانوا يهللو تهليل [they were chanting the tahlil (proclamation on the oneness of Allah)]. [01:22:17] Iyad Jamaly: Yeah. [01:22:18] Bassam Ayesh: So that was something for her. Just being able to see Yafa again after, you know, 60 years of leaving it, you know that was something. But, it was just dramatic. Yeah, I mean, I wish I had the video with me. Maybe one day I'll show it to you. [01:22:39] Farah Al-Nakib: We'd love to. How did you- [01:22:41] Bassam Ayesh: But I videotaped what I was watching yesterday, you know from what she was saying. [01:22:51] Iyad Jamaly: Wow. [01:22:51] Bassam Ayesh: [Shows video of him interviewing his mother.] That was, I think that was the beginning [01:23:11] Farah Al-Nakib: So- [01:23:13] Bassam Ayesh: This is- Well, she passed away in '20. [01:23:16] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. [01:23:17] Bassam Ayesh: COVID. [01:23:19] Farah Al-Nakib: Really? [01:23:19] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. And then, but this interview is on, before Zaid's, well she came when Zaid was born. So he, this is 20 years ago. [01:23:32] Farah Al-Nakib: So sh- [01:23:32] Bassam Ayesh: This interview. [01:23:33] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh, that you interviewed her. [01:23:34] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. [01:23:34] Iyad Jamaly: Wow. [01:23:35] Farah Al-Nakib: So- [01:23:35] Bassam Ayesh: And I wish I did more. But he was crying, that son of a gun. [01:23:40] Farah Al-Nakib: Zaid. [01:23:40] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. I mean, you can hear all that. [01:23:42] Iyad Jamaly: Yeah. [01:23:43] Bassam Ayesh: And so I told him, I said, "I wish, you wish you would shut up so I can get more info out of her." [01:23:48] Farah Al-Nakib: So when did your father pass? [01:23:50] Bassam Ayesh: '98. [01:23:51] Farah Al-Nakib: '98. [01:23:52] Iyad Jamaly: Wow. [01:23:52] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. [01:23:52] Farah Al-Nakib: In Jordan. [01:23:53] Bassam Ayesh: In Jordan. [01:23:54] Farah Al-Nakib: So when did your mom come here? [01:23:56] Bassam Ayesh: In 2004. [01:24:00] Farah Al-Nakib: And she stayed with you? [01:24:02] Bassam Ayesh: Well, for a couple months. [01:24:03] Farah Al-Nakib: And then where... She was- [01:24:05] Bassam Ayesh: She went back to Jordan. [01:24:06] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh, she went back. So she didn't move here. [01:24:07] Bassam Ayesh: No, no, no, no. [01:24:08] Farah Al-Nakib: She stayed in Jordan. [01:24:08] Bassam Ayesh: Okay. She didn't like it here. [01:24:10] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh, but so this was when she came and you did her interview. [01:24:13] Bassam Ayesh: This was when she came. Yeah. [01:24:13] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. [01:24:14] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. Yeah. She, she likes people. She likes people knock on her door and walking in. And she doesn't like, it's just too quiet for her. [01:24:22] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. And do you remember, building off Iyad's question, how did it feel for you- [01:24:30] Bassam Ayesh: Oh, my gosh. [01:24:30] Farah Al-Nakib: To be there for the first time in Palestine? [01:24:31] Bassam Ayesh: Oh, my gosh. That, I mean, what we've accomplished in a couple days, it's just, it was just amazing. It was amazing. And so I'm gonna work on maybe vid- you know, because I took all the little track, the old, and I took them to Costco- [01:24:49] Farah Al-Nakib: Oh, for the, of the interview, yeah. [01:24:50] Bassam Ayesh: You know, a few years ago, and I have them all on شيسموهم [what do they call them]? [01:24:54] Iyad Jamaly: Hard drive? [01:24:55] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah, hard drive. So I have a bunch of them. [01:24:57] Farah Al-Nakib: Of the trip. [01:24:58] Bassam Ayesh: Of, like a lot of stuff. [01:25:01] Farah Al-Nakib: Everything. Yeah. [01:25:02] Bassam Ayesh: The trip. So I'm trying to kind of narrow it and maybe put it all in one. Just kinda... It's fun. The kids had a kick yesterday. We haven't done that in a long time. [01:25:15] Iyad Jamaly: Yeah. [01:25:16] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. Saw themselves when they were three and four, and when he was just born. [01:25:22] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [01:25:23] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. [01:25:23] Farah Al-Nakib: That's nice. [01:25:25] Bassam Ayesh: Because now we, you know, they didn't appreciate... If the kids, when they went to Jerusalem, I was telling them, now that you look at it, because we took them to the Church of Nativity. I said, "Did you know," now as I was telling them, I said, "Did you know you went to the birthplace of Jesus?" He says, "No." [01:25:42] Bassam Ayesh: I say, "See, now you're looking at yourself when you were five, but now you can connect. See? It's like you're there again because you went there, and now you see it on video." [01:25:54] Farah Al-Nakib: So they were fi- they were young, very young when they went. [01:25:56] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah, they were five and eight. Yeah. [01:26:02] Farah Al-Nakib: So your daughter hasn't been. [01:26:03] Bassam Ayesh: No. [01:26:04] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. So that'll be the next. [01:26:06] Bassam Ayesh: Insha'Allah, insha'Allah. Yeah. When it's all free. [01:26:11] Farah Al-Nakib: Yes, inshallah. [01:26:11] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. [01:26:12] Iyad Jamaly: Yeah. I guess another, like, follow-up to that was, like, how did it feel to, like, the first time you went back to Falastin, like, seeing the militarization of it and, like, actually witnessing the occupation? [01:26:24] Bassam Ayesh: Oh, it was terrible. I remember at one محسوم بسموه, checkpoint. We were traveling through Nablus, and then we got stopped. And then they took everything out of from the back of the car, we had زيتون [olives] and, like, two-liter bottle of sodas, olives that we had bought. And then they would take us one at a time to this room, and then so they started with my mom. [01:27:11] Bassam Ayesh: And then they say, "Okay, you stay here." So I was leaning on the, on the car while they're searching my mom, going through her stuff. And then a guy, one of the IDFs, just pointing at me the whole time. I was just leaning against the car waiting for my mom, for my turn to be searched. [01:27:37] Bassam Ayesh: He would not blink. He would not blink. So every so and so, and it's like I'm so nervous, like I'm leaning. It's like, "Why is this guy just pointing at me?" [01:27:48] Farah Al-Nakib: So he's pointing his gun at you the whole time? [01:27:49] Bassam Ayesh: He's pointing gun at me the whole time like this, not blinking. And an American citizen, right? Just looking, it's like, so every so it's like, so I look down every like two minutes I look, he's just not blinking. That was quite an experience too. I didn't think that they'd be that cruel for no reason, just a checkpoint. So they went through all our stuff. They kept us maybe for a couple hours going through our bags. And there was a bunch of these we went through. But I remember that one was, was really bad. Yeah. Just the humiliation on the checkpoints and on, you know, borders, on the borders with the passports and, yeah. Other than that it was a fantastic trip. [01:28:47] Iyad Jamaly: Yeah. I mean, also, like, how was that for your mom? Because I know in the beginning you were talking about how she was actually very close with, like, a lot of, like, Jewish people because of her neighborhood. Right. Like, how was that like for her to go back and to have, like, sort of a different experience? [01:29:01] Bassam Ayesh: Oh, she was not happy. Yeah. When she saw... She wanted to go on the port where she was, where a lot of the people were expelled. Yafa Port. Yafa Port, there is a, a fish place that she used to go to. And that's still there. So she wanted to go and eat there. So I said, "Okay, let's go eat there." [01:29:26] Bassam Ayesh: So when we go there, it was a line of people from here to that, you know, very popular. And she was the only one, she was the only one that's wearing hijab that looks like an Arab. Everybody looked Israeli. I mean, some of them were Arabs, but mostly they were just Israeli. And then she, we stood in the line for maybe two, three minutes, and then she said, "You know what? I just don't feel, I just don't feel comfortable. I just... I don't wanna do, I don't wanna stand in line anymore." So we just moved on. [01:30:06] Bassam Ayesh: So the scene of the Israelis around her, and the number, made her really uncomfortable. She didn't wanna, she didn't wanna go to that restaurant anymore, so we went somewhere else. [01:30:22] Bassam Ayesh: So she was, she was sad to see, you know. Especially if you go to Jerusalem. Jerusalem is more the extremist, the... You know, you leave the mosque, and you'll see the Orthodox just walking as you're leaving the mosque. [01:30:40] Iyad Jamaly: Right. [01:30:41] Bassam Ayesh: So it's like, it just, it doesn't make sense. It just... You know, you're walking around, you see them walking. You know they hate you, you hate them. Just not a comforting feeling, you know? It's just... Yeah. But in the north, Tel Aviv and no, you don't feel that because they're all Europeans and they're all, you're not gonna see their black costumes and yeah. But Jerusalem, definitely. [01:31:09] Bassam Ayesh: You could see it. It's يعني [I mean] yeah. Then I realized how hard is it for the Palestinians living in Jerusalem. It's really, really hard. I mean, mingling with these people is just, it's tough dealing with them. Yeah. [01:31:29] Iyad Jamaly: Do you have anything? [01:31:31] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah, I was gonna ask, you mentioned coming back to Atascadero that the community here, you've never really felt any of the sort of discrimination or things like that here. But how has it been, particularly the last couple of years, being Palestinian here? Have you felt, has it been different or changed or the same? [01:31:51] Bassam Ayesh: Umm, I mean, I run into... Yes, I mean, I run into people that are ignorant to say the least. But the difference is, now I have the courage to speak more than I did before. Now I don't, I don't care.  I don't care. [01:32:11] Farah Al-Nakib: Now being in the last couple of years more so? [01:32:13] Bassam Ayesh: Yes. I mean, and I know I lost customers because of it to some people. You know, like, one guy was a customer of mine was telling me one time, I was talking about the demonstration at the Cal Poly and he was telling me that his, he has a, his son-in-law works there. And, and he was talk- you know, he was telling me that these guys, they were just doing this for no reason and you know, so that's where it all started. [01:32:47] Bassam Ayesh: And I said, "Well, no, I disagree with you. I mean, I think they're, you know, speaking up. That's their right to do that. And, they're speaking, standing up for the injustice that's taking place in Palestine." And he goes, "Well, there's no, there's no such thing as Palestine." And that kind of like, "Ah, okay, there you go." [01:33:10] Bassam Ayesh: So I said, "I know you're, you're a good customer of mine and I just want you to be on the right side of history. Do you wanna hear my perspective? Because I am Palestinian, whether you like it or not." Right. [01:33:25] Farah Al-Nakib: Did they know, did he know beforehand? [01:33:26] Bassam Ayesh: No. [01:33:27] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. [01:33:27] Bassam Ayesh: He knows, he knows probably I'm an Arab. [01:33:29] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [01:33:29] Bassam Ayesh: But he didn't know. And I said, "Then what am, what am I? You know, what am I if there's no Palestine? Can you, can you tell me?" He says, "Well, you know, it was Transjordan and the Romans, and I read and I..." And I said, "Okay, you read. Okay." And I said, "Okay, there's no Palestinian. How about there, are there people that live there? Were there people that lived there when the creation of the state of...?" He says, "Yeah, but, you know," so I said, "You know, I just want you to be on the right..." I said, I said, "If I, the only way I will not be able to convince you is if you go to ABC Church and you're evangelical Christian, then I will keep my mouth shut because there's nothing I can say that will convince you because of the, how you interpret your Bible, then that's your belief. There's no way I can convince you. But if you're anything different than that, then I'll be happy to chat with you and listen to my perspective." I said, "My parents were there, my parents were kicked out." And he was just, he was just stuck in his ways. Just a typical Zionist. That's what he is. Yeah. [01:34:57] Bassam Ayesh: You know, back in the days before this Gaza, I probably was reserved on speaking up, but now like, if I don't do this, I feel like I'm complicit. So now I don't care what people think of me. I don't care if I lose a customer or two, three or four or five, because of that. [01:35:23] Bassam Ayesh: A lot of people know now that I am Palestinian and you know, I would like people to come up to me and ask me more, to be honest. I don't see a lot of that, and they're just telling me that people don't care. People don't care. People are just... This is a Trump town anyways. Atascadero is a Trump town, and I run into guys at the gym, and they're mostly Trump. So I just avoid them. [01:35:59] Bassam Ayesh: Because they're just, I can't handle their ignorance. You know, one guy, he doesn't know I'm an Arab, and he's telling me, "You know, all these countries ganging up on Israel." And it's like, "Oh, no, another one." So it's, I just avoid them. Yeah. [01:36:19] Farah Al-Nakib: Have you also felt the opposite, more support or, in the community? [01:36:23] Bassam Ayesh: From some. From, uuuh, not as much as I would like to. Not as much as I would like to, and I don't know if that's just people don't know. But, yeah, I think it should be more, but it just tells me how ignorant people are. [01:36:44] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [01:36:45] Iyad Jamaly: So I mean, even before you talked about how now you're starting to speak up more, like, did you, would you hear similar comments like this even before, like, October 7th, of people talking about just Arab countries or Falastin in specific? [01:37:00] Bassam Ayesh: No. They, no, they wouldn't speak more. I mean, I think most people, like I said, they don't, they don't care or they're, they just don't know. [01:37:09] Bassam Ayesh: You know? They don't even know where Palestine is or what Palestine is, you know? They say, "I know Pakistan," you know? So they just don't care. But whoever brings something like this up, I will make an effort to say something. [01:37:31] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. [01:37:32] Bassam Ayesh: Say something. And say, "Oh, hold on, you just wanna hear a different perspective?" You know, "I'm from there, you know, just..." And a lot of people, you know, some of them, like I had a few people say, "Oh, well, thank you for the perspective. I didn't even know." So. Now whether they take it, you know, have it sunk in and change your mind, I don't know. But, but at least, you know, that's what we need to do, I think. One guy at a time. Yeah. [01:38:06] Farah Al-Nakib: I don't know... I know you open at 11 right? So I don't know if it's 10:24 cutting into your prep time for- [01:38:13] Bassam Ayesh: No, no, it's fine. [01:38:14] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. [01:38:14] Bassam Ayesh: I don't have much of prep time. [01:38:16] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay. [01:38:21] Bassam Ayesh: علشان بدنا انفطركم كمان. We're gonna have breakfast together. [01:38:24] Farah Al-Nakib: I guess I have maybe a, a question that can lead us towards wrapping up, but what do you consider home? Like, where is home to you? [01:38:34] Bassam Ayesh: Home where you feel like you have dignity. When you have your, your rights. That's what I feel home is. Like, I always felt like here is home. Not recently, though. So now I'm constantly thinking about, you know, I wanna live somewhere else. [01:38:56] Farah Al-Nakib: You wouldn't? [01:38:57] Bassam Ayesh: I would. You would. I wanna live... Oh, yeah. I always tell my wife, if I didn't have kids I'd go find myself some island or go to Thailand or Cambodia or, you know. I honestly would. [01:39:15] Bassam Ayesh: Just somewhere peaceful, and I just don't like the politics of this country anymore. Especially since Trump took over. You know? So that's home, home where you feel like you're, you know, you're respected and your dignity, have dignity and your rights and have rights, and you can speak up. [01:39:38] Bassam Ayesh: I mean, still this country is still better than our countries in the Middle East. You, I mean, you can still talk, you can still, you know, raise a Palestinian flag. I mean, when you think about you can't raise a Palestinian flag in Jordan. It's like, "Oh, no," which is, you know, 70% of people are Palestinians, and you can't do that. [01:39:56] Bassam Ayesh: It's like, oh, wait a minute, where are we going? Where are we going? It's like, it's just so sickening. It's like, we have these خون حوالينا [traitors in our midst]. You know? It's just... [01:40:08] Bassam Ayesh: »ll this money that we spend on Ronaldo, on, you know, Saudi Arabia, they just spent like 150 million just to, not to pay him, but just to reactivate his contract or something, I was reading. Just, it's like a outrageous number of money that would feed Gaza. The money they give just Ronaldo would build Gaza. [01:40:37] Bassam Ayesh: You know? You think, "Oh, my gosh." It's, it's just shameful. I'm just so sickened by all these presidents and kings and, yeah. Sick world. But I think, I think Israel's days are numbered, you know, because, you know how they say they gotta get worse before it gets better? [01:41:05] Farah Al-Nakib: And do you still feel... Like you mentioned, you know, Kuwait and Palestine. I mean, in some ways you've had many homes or places that, you know, you- [01:41:16] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. Right. Right. [01:41:19] Farah Al-Nakib: Identify as part of who you are. [01:41:21] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. But there's just, there's no justice. In all the Arab worlds, there's no justice. I mean, you could be Palestinian living in Ramallah, you don't have any, you can't speak against Abbas or, just like you can't speak against the King of Jordan or King Mohammed bin Zayed or Mohammed bin Salman. You can't. You can't criticize them. [01:41:42] Bassam Ayesh: Why? Why can't I have different point of view than you? Why do I have to just agree with everything you do or well, our government does? Then what, are we just sheep? [01:41:56] Bassam Ayesh: Are we just, do we have to raise you regardless what you do? I mean, so yeah. Yeah, so I don't know. The world is just not very good right now. [01:42:12] Farah Al-Nakib: I guess as a final question, is there anything that you feel we didn't ask you or we should have asked, or something that you wanna share that we didn't touch on or that we might have missed? [01:42:25] Bassam Ayesh: I don't think so. [01:42:28] Farah Al-Nakib: Okay [01:42:28] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. You did a great job. [01:42:30] Iyad Jamaly: Thank you. [01:42:31] Bassam Ayesh: You pass. [01:42:33] Farah Al-Nakib: Well, thank you so much Bassam. That was really a wonderful, wonderful interview, and so rich. And you've, thank you for sharing- [01:42:39] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah? [01:42:40] Farah Al-Nakib: Your stories with us. [01:42:40] Bassam Ayesh: Okay. Good. Yeah. I hope that that's, what's the word? I can't think of the word. في كلمة حاسس فيها بس مش عارف شو هي [there is a word I'm feeling but I don't know what it is]. [01:42:55] Farah Al-Nakib: What is it بالعربي [in Arabic]? [01:42:57] Bassam Ayesh: Uh... بنّاء. Constructive? [01:42:59] Farah Al-Nakib: Yes, exactly. Yeah, constructive. Absolutely. Very much so. [01:43:04] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. [01:43:04] Farah Al-Nakib: And we're also gonna hopefully be interviewing Haitham, so we'll get his side of bringing up that story too. [01:43:11] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. [01:43:11] Farah Al-Nakib: Yeah. All right, well thank you so much. I'm gonna go ahead and stop the tape. [01:43:15] Bassam Ayesh: Yeah. بدنا بدنا ... we gotta eat something here. [01:43:17] Farah Al-Nakib: Sure! I'll stop this. [01:43:18] Bassam Ayesh: Okay. You didn't have any-